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| Allegheny vs Comly Swaps | |
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| Topic Started: Jul 1 2008, 01:57 PM (2,063 Views) | |
| CACrafter88bk2504 | Jul 14 2008, 10:38 PM Post #16 |
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Transit Historian
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They should send the 6 back to Midvale. I live 2 blocks away from route 6 & the 6 doesn't need artics after 9pm during the week. I could be wrong but I think the 6 has since lost some ridership counts over the years. If the 6 stays @ Allegheny, it may remain an all artic route. If the 6 gets reassigned to Midvale, they will take many of the artics off the 55 & deploy them onto the 6 during the weekday schedules. One thing about the 6, you will always need room on the 6. It is better to be safe than sorry. Before the 6 became bus in January 1986, the line served as a feeder to the broad & olney subway & carried nearly 10,000 daily. That was itneresting at the time, given that the line was only 20 minutes in length from end to end & the Germantown routes(L, 6exp which became the 22 & 55) served specific suburbs in Montgomery County that, in November 1985, were either sparsely populated or no one really paid attention to these areas. Around November 1985(shortly before 6 went bus), the L, 22 & 55 didn't carry the headways & ridership counts that could top the 6. Not even the S (which became the 18)& 26. The C may have came close. On weekends, the 6 can get tricky. When Midvale had the 6, there were some trips going to or from olney terminal on Saturday or Sunday that were empty, and there were some trips that were so filled that you had to literally go to the roof of the bus just to either get a seat or get some fresh air. And yes Midvale ran Neos on the 6 during the weekends(daytime hours, mainly the Neo EIs & a few Neo EZs before Midvale lost the line. |
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| TRANSIT_FREAK | Jul 14 2008, 10:49 PM Post #17 |
Full Wrap Ad Expert.
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I took the 6 last year to and from school, The bus was packed even at noon. I remember 1 time I took it at like 6:00 in the morning. That run had an artic. It could have used an Eldorado! But at like 5AM I saw A midvale overhaul on route 6 while I was at Olney. That was someday in May. |
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| Southern_8100 | Jul 14 2008, 11:52 PM Post #18 |
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Trolley Enthusiast
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If the 6 does stay at Allegheny, they may put New Flyers on the route after a certain time since they aren't needed 24/7. In fact, most of the 6's i saw this past weekend could've gotten away with a New Flyer. I'm still surprised over the fact that the New Flyers have made an appearance on the 33 & 48, but have yet to be seen on the 6! However, if there was any Allegheny route that should be sent over to Midvale, it should definitely be the 27. The ridership on the 27 is so low that you could assign Eldorados on it. Same thing goes with the 9, which may be one of the reasons it was sent to midvale in exchange for the 54 (back in 2004 i believe). I guess the 54 supposedly had high ridership and the artics were needed throughout the day. |
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| philabob1 | Jul 15 2008, 02:38 PM Post #19 |
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Yesterday I saw LF's on 27 blocks 59 and 60. 59 starts first thing and goes thru the PM peak, so at least one peak run is getting LF's. I believe 60 starts early and comes back after the PM as well. The 70 blocks, which run into the late evening, have been LF's for the past week or so, so they're going to non-artics in the PM peak as well. Many 27 riders have gotten used to expecting artics (stand at 15th & Kennedy and watch the 'sea' of riders head toward the curb when an artic comes around City Hall - more often than not it's a 33). They'll need to adjust. The hills on 27 were not kind to all 40' buses. The 3100-series Neos assigned to Allegheny had little trouble on them. The NABI's frequently did. Perhaps the toughest hill is the short rise southbound on Leverington Ave just off Henry where trouble waits because the bus must slow to make the turn from Henry so it's starting from almost stop. A close second is northbound on Manayunk Ave at Burnside St (the north side of the bridge over Shurs Lane), which is a service stop - if the bus doesn't have to make this, it will have much less trouble climbing that hill. Interestingly the runs I saw this past weekend on 27 were all served by artics. As for 33 and 48, back in the Volvo days many weekend 48's were RTS's and 3100-series Neos. On 9, there was an occasional Volvo out past the PM peak, but most were off by dark. |
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| Septa3371CSX1 | Jul 15 2008, 03:12 PM Post #20 |
Septa3371CSX1
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I've said this before, and I will say it again. The way things were in the 1990's at Allegheny in regards to artic assignments is how they should still do it today. I feel the 6 should go back to Midvale since it is closer to the route and also more in the territory of where many of Midvale's routes run. Let's examine the route assignments back in 1998 right before the 35 was moved to Midvale. Allegheny had the 9, 27, 32, 33, 35, 39, 48, 54, 60, 61, and part of the 65. Midvale had the 6, 22, 53, 55, 56, 77, H/XH, L, and part of the 2, 18 (it was right around this time that Midvale got the whole shibbang), 23, 47, 47M (at this time the 47 and 47M were interlined), 57, 89, C, and Broad Street Orange OWL. The 35 used a few 1300 series Neoplans that were assigned to Allegheny specifically for that route. They moved to Midvale with the 35. The 32, 33, 39, 54, 61, and 65 used 40 footers at just about all times. The 9, 27, 48, and 60 used the Volvos (8590 was assigned to route 27 blocks 57 and 75) and also used 40 footers. The 48 and 60 mainly used Volvos during the week but some 40 footers snuck in on the weekends. As PhilaBob said, the 9 and 27 usually lost their Volvos after the PM peak ended. The way it worked was that certain blocks were assigned artics and they were usually blocks that ran only during the peak hours with maybe a couple of early and midday straights. Weekends the 9 and 27 were pretty much all 40 footers. Then when SEPTA decided to get the new artics, they figured an all artic depot was a great idea. Now they're realizing how stupid that was. What SEPTA should be doing with the redeployment of artics is putting things back close to where they used to be. Move the 9, 32, 61, and 62 back to Allegheny and bring the 6 back to Midvale. Keep 80 artics at Allegheny. This would be enough for the 33, 48, and 60 to use and also leave enough for selected blocks on the 9, 27, 54, and 65 to have. The rest of the blocks on those routes would be 40 footers. Use the additional artics at Midvale on the 47 and other routes that desperately need them. |
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| CACrafter88bk2504 | Jul 15 2008, 03:34 PM Post #21 |
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Transit Historian
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In the 1970s, when the 27 was classified as a branch of the Route A(Upper Henry Avenue), the A(Upper Henry Avenue) branch shut down by 11:00pm on weekdays & Saturdays. There wasn't ANY service on Upper Henry Avenue(the current 27 routing from Wissahickon to Barren Hill) on Sundays & holidays. I think that the Plymouth Meeting area is the reason as to why the 27 receives artics. I used to work out there. In 2000/2001, the 27 was re routed through Plymouth Meeting for reasons concerning traffic. The ridership was out there when the Metroplex first opened. The issue that discourages most 27 riders(especially in Upper Roxborough) concerns traffic, the Schuykill Expressway, congestion, & even Broad Street. An hour plus trip over nothing. Sometimes, the running time from Plymouth Meeting Mall to 15th & Market would be well over an hour. |
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| CACrafter88bk2504 | Jul 15 2008, 03:55 PM Post #22 |
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Transit Historian
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Off topic: I spotted 5896 being liften onto a SEPTA wrecker on State Road outside the Allison tranny plant. On topic. I don't think artics would work on the 20. Why? 1. Anyone notice along Convent Avenue the speed regulations posted for the buses(speed limit 15mph)? The people on Convent Avenue reside in a very very peaceful community & theyw ill voice their opinions & get their objectives carried out. In short, the artics would probably make too much noise & rock the houses along that part of the line(similar to the stuff that went down in Andorra in years past). 2. Parkwood(Medford Road, Mechanicsville Road, Nanton Drive). Medford Road can barely handle 2 New Flyers passing each other at the same time. Again, Parkwood residents don't wish to hear a lot of noise from buses. If they do put artics on the 20(& even if they don't), I really think that they should go back to the outbound routing(Knights & Mechaniscsville, Franklin Mills, Neshaminy Mall via Philadelphia Park) via Medford Road ONLY & the inbound(Bridge & Pratt) routing realigned back onto Academy Road ONLY. 3. The Modena Park segment of the line(Morrell, Keswick, Chalfont) is again quaint, quiet & reserved, as well as closed in. Morrell Avenue is wide & spread out. Keswick Road & Chalfont Drive aren't. How would the artics respond to that hill on Chalfont Drive coming off Academy Road during the winter months? The artics should be relegated to Academy Road only. ALl the back stuff should continue to be served by NABIs or Flyers. |
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| Southern_8100 | Jul 15 2008, 07:04 PM Post #23 |
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5916 was seen at 69th Street today on the 65, Unknown block 7138 was on the 65 block 5218 |
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| philabob1 | Jul 15 2008, 09:01 PM Post #24 |
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5924 was on 60 earlier this evening. |
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| philabob1 | Jul 15 2008, 09:07 PM Post #25 |
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27 gets a lot of school ridership which means it looks empty in the summertime. (This has contributed to its lack of appeal from a formerly loyal rider base.) 27 is too long. It shouldn't go to Plymouth Meeting - it should be cut back to Barren Hill. The Manayunk Ave routing should also be reconsidered - very slow. The entire Expressway routing should also be rethought - often, the express via local route service is faster (once a regular Friday afternoon thing). The availability of employer-sponsored transit checks, etc has hurt 27 as well. I abandoned 27 4 years ago when I received a vehicle with a promotion. When I switched jobs over a year ago I decided to become a train commuter since my employer has pre-tax transit deductions. Many of my fellow train riders are ex-27 users who gave up the slow and unpredictable service (and the school kids) for a faster and more dependable ride. 9 went to Midvale to allow its use of 40' buses since the artics weren't needed any more. 2004 could be right, but I don't recall. At the time, Midvale was going to run all Allegheny's routes on weekends, but that fell through. In my infrequent travels on 9 I have noticed that ridership has picked up and many peak trips are full. |
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| philabob1 | Jul 15 2008, 09:12 PM Post #26 |
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Agree totally. From what I was told, a certain maintenance AGM who shall remain nameless made the decision on all artics at Allegheny to 'shut up those pesky 9 and 27 riders' who complained about the artics not being on the heavy runs. One of the almost immediate problems with that decision was the wasted capacity of artics on night and weekend runs. The next problem was the first snowfall which rendered 9 and 27 useless - the 'solution' was that the Neos were pushers (as opposed to the Volvos which had the drive wheels in the center). The pushers pushed the front sections into jackknifes. Same difficulty. The mix of 40' and 60' buses would be good in those respects. Too bad it took SEPTA about 7 years to figure it out. |
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| Septa3371CSX1 | Jul 15 2008, 09:46 PM Post #27 |
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Yeah, sounds like a typical SEPTA solution to a problem. I've noticed on the 65 on weekends the Allegheny runs could easily use 40 footers, especially on Sundays. 5201 block (the nightliner) does NOT need an artic. 5201 block, I believe, is the 7:54 AM trip that originates out of 54th and City heading up to Germantown where it finishes. Since most of the overcrowding complaints are in the Overbrook area, 5201 should easily be able to use a New Flyer every day. That way you're not wasting the capacity of the artic on a route that does not need it at 3 in the morning. I'm not sure what the situation is on the 33 in terms of the OWL ridership, so I can't say whether or not it really needs artics but those runs stay on into the AM peak and do haul. The 6 could probably get away with a New Flyer on the OWL runs. The 6 would do better off at Midvale since they could easily interline it with other routes at Olney TC. This way the right bus can be used on the 6 as well as the 22, 55, and L when needed. |
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| Southern_8100 | Jul 15 2008, 11:48 PM Post #28 |
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Aren't there still runs on the 9 that have artics from midvale assigned to them? |
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| philabob1 | Jul 16 2008, 07:17 AM Post #29 |
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Very few, if any these days. I saw one on an afternoon run a couple of weeks back and it was the first one I've seen in months. When 9 first went to Midvale the artics were on selected runs and then that became more of a late-run thing (and then, once again, the runs that had them kept them until the late evening, putting capacity where it wasn't needed). If SEPTA does anything to 9, it should reconsider the 10-minute AM peak headway (which is 13 minutes a couple of times when it should be shorter) - bringing in one more bus and providing a consistent 7-8 minute street would be better, in my opinion. The ridership is certainly there. I know quite a few ex-27 riders who have 'defected' to 9 and 62 to avoid the school kids (others, like me, are on the train). 62 is another route that is becoming popular and could use another run or two in the AM. |
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| philabob1 | Jul 18 2008, 07:33 AM Post #30 |
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Took a ride in on 27 this AM, got 5920 on block 54 with one of the two nicest drivers at Allegheny (who's still driving - surprised he hasn't retired yet). Good ride, not very many riders. Encountered at least two (5916 and 5921) outbounds with LF's, also one with an artic. Saw another LF on 60 yesterday (didn't get the number), so they're there as well. I heard 3rd-hand that 27 will become pretty much all 40' buses with the fall schedule and artics will be slotted for a handful of runs that come on and go off in the peaks. When the Volvos were around, the AM's that got artics were for the most part those that started at either Barren Hill or Port Royal, with the Mall starts getting 40'ers. The PM was not as cut-and-dried and there were no shorts to Port Royal. In the current schedule there are only 2 Port Royal starts and 2 other oddballs that go into service at Ridge & Summit, going a bit against the grain to get to the regular route at Ridge & Port Royal (in years gone by, there were at least a dozen trips that began at Port Royal, so that gives you an idea of the drop in ridership on 27) and 5-6 Mall starts, with the rest coming from Barren Hill. It will be interesting to see how this works, if it does. |
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