Long Lasting Buses

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Long Lasting Buses
Topic Started: Jan 12 2009, 07:33 PM (710 Views)
Septa_kid	Jan 12 2009, 07:33 PM Post #1
flxie!!!! Posts: 2,040 Group: Members Member #2,467 Joined: March 31, 2008	Which buses lasted longer than their 12 year lives besides the Neoplan AN435's, Neoplan AN440's and the American General 10240-E's in the SEPTA fleet?



CACrafter88bk2504	Jan 12 2009, 07:47 PM Post #2
Transit Historian Posts: 1,324 Group: Members Member #51 Joined: November 10, 2005	Septa_kid Jan 12 2009, 07:24 PM Were there any other buses that Lasted for 20 years besides the Neoplan AN440's and the AMG 10240-E's? Yes, there were several groups of SEPTA(PTC/SEPTA) buses that lasted well over 20 years: A. The Marmon/herrington trolley coaches that were used @ Frankford depot to provide service on the 59, 66 & 75. A group came into revenue service in 1949 & another group came into revenue service in 1955. Both groups were completely off the roster by early 1982. B. The old look GMs(TDH 5105 & 5106) models. Many of them lasted into the SEPTA takeover, with the bulk of them housed @ Southern & perhaps Frankford. By 1980, only a handful existed & the bulk of them were assigned to Frankford(some for Comly). The old looks were manufactured from 1955-1957. C. The "Fishbowls". PTC got these buses in several groups, a 1963 bunch(both 96 inches wide & 102 inches wide). The 1963 group did not survive 20 years, for all of them were completely off the roster by early 1982, however, with the deffered maintenance associated with SEPTA during the 1970s, it was a miracle that they lasted that long. There were transit diesel buses with hyraulic transmissions. D. The next group of Fisbowls that PTC got in 1963 were a unique group. A small group. 17 buses. 96 inches wide. These were the suburban diesel buses with mechanical transmissions.These buses had stickshifts, no center door, soft semi reclining full back seats & were intended for use on the newly created route 45, to King of Prussia, & the 38. By the time SEPTA took over, these buses were sent to Comly & Frankford for emergency service between the two depots, Trenton Philadelphia Coach, & special services, like the Race Track & Shoppers Special routes. These buses were numbered 3900-3916. By 1982, all but three of them were retired. Believe it or not, the three that survived were assigned to Red Arrow Division(I think they were renumbered 6, 8 & 9). So, close, but no cigar. E. The 1967 group of 96 inch wide, transit diesel buses with hydraulic transmissions. F. The 1970 group of 96 inch wide, transit diesel buses with hydraulic transmissions. Both of these groups(1967 & 1970) were identical. Regretfully, many of these buses fell victim to the Neo invasion of the mid 1980s. The remnants between the two groups were assigned between Luzerne & Germantown depots. Luzerne ran them in earnest until the summer of 1988, mainly on the North Philadelphia routes(notably the C), for The C wasn't the C without the Fishbowls. Some of them were 1967. If so, they lasted over 20 years. G. As for the Neoplans, the Neo EIs & EZs lasted for up to 18 years. The AKs & BMs were within the 12 year guideline set before them. The Neo BMs, BPs CDs, DKs & EBs ran in revenue service for SEPTA & lasted for 17 years.



CACrafter88bk2504	Jan 12 2009, 07:59 PM Post #3
Transit Historian Posts: 1,324 Group: Members Member #51 Joined: November 10, 2005	PTC maintained a group of 1947 Brill trackless units. Most of them were assigned to Southern. A few of them were assigned to Frankford. These units soldiered on for nearly 35 years. Lastly, SEPTA had a order of Flxible buses, manufactured between 1972 through 1976. None of these buses lasted 20 years. Some of them didn't make it past 10 years. By 1984, the remaining Flxible units on SEPTA property were assigned between Allegheny, Callowhill, Comly & Southern(Callowhill & Luzerne had a 30 foot group, mainly for use on the short feeder routes, like the 14 via 42nd & Chester Avenue to 40th & Market, the D 1 to the Civic Center & the 30 serving Haverford Avenue in West Philadelphia & Haddington, & Frankford had a 35 foot group). In 1987, Callowhill got Neo units 3132-3171, Allegheny got units 3172-3197(there may have been more) & Southern got 3212-3236, sort of displacing the Flxible units in the City Transit Division. The Neo AKs & BDs overshadowed the Northeast sections of Philadelphia. I think, around the fall of 1987, Comly got 3252-3271, with wheelchair lifts



ED77KATR	Jan 12 2009, 10:45 PM Post #4
Transit Fan Posts: 64 Group: Members Member #2,650 Joined: August 8, 2008	The 1955 GM [green hornets] when last of them were junked in 1983 they were 27 years old!!! I drove the last of them at Comly that year on a school trip..... Ed



philabob1	Jan 15 2009, 08:16 AM Post #5
Advanced Transit Fan Posts: 463 Group: Members Member #640 Joined: June 15, 2007	Keep in mind the buses from long ago that hung around for a long time - the ACF's from 1939, that finally went in the late 50's, the Mack CM's, similar vintage, and the postwar Macks that served for 17-18 years. The Brill tracklesses (200 series) were indeed workhorses. I rode them to high school on the 29. Southern kept them in good shape as long as it could, but things started to turn around in the mid-70's. Remarkably, they never got a major overhaul/rebuild in their lifespans and hung around for 35 years.



Septa_kid	Jan 15 2009, 04:27 PM Post #6
flxie!!!! Posts: 2,040 Group: Members Member #2,467 Joined: March 31, 2008	There is a Lot South Of Erie avenue between A St and G Street (I don't know where exactally I passed by it on an R7 train yesterday) Where I saw old PCC cars in the SEPTA scheme and one of them said route 56 and another said route 53. Are these from the old Luzurne Depot?



TRANSIT_FREAK	Jan 15 2009, 05:02 PM Post #7
Simpsonized! Posts: 2,647 Group: Members Member #865 Joined: August 2, 2007	Septa_kid Jan 15 2009, 04:27 PM There is a Lot South Of Erie avenue between A St and G Street (I don't know where exactally I passed by it on an R7 train yesterday) Where I saw old PCC cars in the SEPTA scheme and one of them said route 56 and another said route 53. Are these from the old Luzurne Depot? Luzurne Depot is not located along the R7. Luzrune is located at Luzurne and 10th st



TRANSIT_FREAK	Jan 15 2009, 05:03 PM Post #8
Simpsonized! Posts: 2,647 Group: Members Member #865 Joined: August 2, 2007	TRANSIT_FREAK100 Jan 15 2009, 05:02 PM Septa_kid Jan 15 2009, 04:27 PM There is a Lot South Of Erie avenue between A St and G Street (I don't know where exactally I passed by it on an R7 train yesterday) Where I saw old PCC cars in the SEPTA scheme and one of them said route 56 and another said route 53. Are these from the old Luzurne Depot? Luzurne Depot is not located along the R7. Luzrune is located at Luzurne and 10th st Close to the R7 but not on the R7, sorry for the mistake there.



Bus Guy 8202	Jan 15 2009, 05:28 PM Post #9
The 113-119 Spotter Posts: 1,201 Group: Members Member #2,623 Joined: June 11, 2008	Septa_kid Jan 15 2009, 04:27 PM There is a Lot South Of Erie avenue between A St and G Street (I don't know where exactally I passed by it on an R7 train yesterday) Where I saw old PCC cars in the SEPTA scheme and one of them said route 56 and another said route 53. Are these from the old Luzurne Depot? Some guy bought then(I think he bought 6?)and put them in that lot,the guy's dead now.......so I don't know who owns them now.



Tritransit Area	Jan 16 2009, 06:37 PM Post #10
Transit Enthusiast Posts: 2,243 Group: Admin Member #4 Joined: February 17, 2005	Oh wow - I saw them myself today - about 5 or 6 trolleys parked right along the R7/ Northeast Corridor with some other trucks. So sad...but SEPTA may have some extra cars available to purchase for the 15! lol



GODFREY AVE.	Jan 18 2009, 10:48 AM Post #11
Occasional Rider Posts: 17 Group: Members Member #817 Joined: July 25, 2007	Haven't posted in a while, so to all, I hope you have a Happy and Healthy 2009. I have a few corrections to this thread that I will post in the up-coming days( Reitirement dates of models and differences of models). Also, Santa was very good to me and I now have the capability to con vert my slides to disk. I just have to sit down and learn how to do it. When talking about slides my Septa/PTC/PRT alone is presently at around 20,000. That is right 20,000, 14,000 of which are buses. And to the delight of all of you Neoplan fans out there, I have all but 20-25 of them. I wish I would have started shooting a few years sooner and gotten more Green-Hornets and Fish-Bowls in their original colors. So be patient and when I find out how to convert them and then post them,I will be glad to share them here. I'm sure both "Young Bucks" and us "Old Heads" will enjoy these! Again, Happy and Healthy 2009, Godfrey Ave.



Mr. Transit	Jan 18 2009, 02:11 PM Post #12
Transit Fan Posts: 107 Group: Members Member #2,280 Joined: February 16, 2008	Everyone seems to have forgotten about the ex-Red Arrow Divison buses that SEPTA later used in the City Divison, at the Comly, Frankford and Southern depots in the early to mid 80's(1960&61,66,67,70 GMC New Looks--154-211, exclusing 192-196, and some 1974 Flxibles 360-407. They were also used by the Frontier and the old TPC divison of SEPTA. I remember seeing some of the 1960-61 35ft. GMC's on the rts. 17 and the old Airport Express line. On one rt. 17 run, the designation sign only had the route designation and not the rt. #, but there was one of the side of the bus.



Septa_kid	Jan 18 2009, 03:08 PM Post #13
flxie!!!! Posts: 2,040 Group: Members Member #2,467 Joined: March 31, 2008	Tritransit Area Jan 16 2009, 06:37 PM Oh wow - I saw them myself today - about 5 or 6 trolleys parked right along the R7/ Northeast Corridor with some other trucks. So sad...but SEPTA may have some extra cars available to purchase for the 15! lol There is exactaly 6 of them, but they are too rusty to even think about seeing service again, maybe SEPTA can use them as an historic thing-a-majig.



Mark	Jan 18 2009, 11:58 PM Post #14
Advanced Transit Fan Posts: 436 Group: Members Member #6 Joined: February 18, 2005	CACrafter88bk2504 Jan 12 2009, 07:47 PM Septa_kid Jan 12 2009, 07:24 PM Were there any other buses that Lasted for 20 years besides the Neoplan AN440's and the AMG 10240-E's? Yes, there were several groups of SEPTA(PTC/SEPTA) buses that lasted well over 20 years: A. The Marmon/herrington trolley coaches that were used @ Frankford depot to provide service on the 59, 66 & 75. A group came into revenue service in 1949 & another group came into revenue service in 1955. Both groups were completely off the roster by early 1982. B. The old look GMs(TDH 5105 & 5106) models. Many of them lasted into the SEPTA takeover, with the bulk of them housed @ Southern & perhaps Frankford. By 1980, only a handful existed & the bulk of them were assigned to Frankford(some for Comly). The old looks were manufactured from 1955-1957. C. The "Fishbowls". PTC got these buses in several groups, a 1963 bunch(both 96 inches wide & 102 inches wide). The 1963 group did not survive 20 years, for all of them were completely off the roster by early 1982, however, with the deffered maintenance associated with SEPTA during the 1970s, it was a miracle that they lasted that long. There were transit diesel buses with hyraulic transmissions. D. The next group of Fisbowls that PTC got in 1963 were a unique group. A small group. 17 buses. 96 inches wide. These were the suburban diesel buses with mechanical transmissions.These buses had stickshifts, no center door, soft semi reclining full back seats & were intended for use on the newly created route 45, to King of Prussia, & the 38. By the time SEPTA took over, these buses were sent to Comly & Frankford for emergency service between the two depots, Trenton Philadelphia Coach, & special services, like the Race Track & Shoppers Special routes. These buses were numbered 3900-3916. By 1982, all but three of them were retired. Believe it or not, the three that survived were assigned to Red Arrow Division(I think they were renumbered 6, 8 & 9). So, close, but no cigar. E. The 1967 group of 96 inch wide, transit diesel buses with hydraulic transmissions. F. The 1970 group of 96 inch wide, transit diesel buses with hydraulic transmissions. Both of these groups(1967 & 1970) were identical. Regretfully, many of these buses fell victim to the Neo invasion of the mid 1980s. The remnants between the two groups were assigned between Luzerne & Germantown depots. Luzerne ran them in earnest until the summer of 1988, mainly on the North Philadelphia routes(notably the C), for The C wasn't the C without the Fishbowls. Some of them were 1967. If so, they lasted over 20 years. G. As for the Neoplans, the Neo EIs & EZs lasted for up to 18 years. The AKs & BMs were within the 12 year guideline set before them. The Neo BMs, BPs CDs, DKs & EBs ran in revenue service for SEPTA & lasted for 17 years. Some additional info: A. The 1949 Marmons were numbered 471-98. They were used on the 59 and 75 when they were converted to Trackless Trolleys. The 1955 Marmons were numbered 301-43, and they were used to convert the 66 to Trackless. In 1979, 325 was rebuilt with the new chopper controls to familiarize operators and mechanics on the upcoming AMG order. B. The old look GMs in the 500-799 series were mostly replaced with the Flxibles [6000-74, 6075-6313, while the 2900-3249 and the 3500-3850 were replaced with the 6314-6665 Flxibles], and the 1969-70 Fishbowl purchase [4250-4427] and that left about 100 old looks from the three groups left over in the reserve fleet. That fleet was done by the RTS and Neoplans. C. SEPTA dumped the 5000 series because they were 102" wide and SEPTA wanted the bus fleet to be 96". That policy was in effect until the 1996 NABIs arrived. Since then the industry standard mandated 102" wide buses. E & F. The 1967 [4150-4249] and 69-70 Fishbowls [ 206-11/4250-4427/1201-14] were rebuilt by NIMCO in 1983, and by Blitz in 1984. They were replaced mostly by the 3000 series Neoplans.



Septa_kid	Feb 26 2009, 01:29 PM Post #15
flxie!!!! Posts: 2,040 Group: Members Member #2,467 Joined: March 31, 2008	Mark Jan 18 2009, 11:58 PM CACrafter88bk2504 Jan 12 2009, 07:47 PM Septa_kid Jan 12 2009, 07:24 PM Were there any other buses that Lasted for 20 years besides the Neoplan AN440's and the AMG 10240-E's? Yes, there were several groups of SEPTA(PTC/SEPTA) buses that lasted well over 20 years: A. The Marmon/herrington trolley coaches that were used @ Frankford depot to provide service on the 59, 66 & 75. A group came into revenue service in 1949 & another group came into revenue service in 1955. Both groups were completely off the roster by early 1982. B. The old look GMs(TDH 5105 & 5106) models. Many of them lasted into the SEPTA takeover, with the bulk of them housed @ Southern & perhaps Frankford. By 1980, only a handful existed & the bulk of them were assigned to Frankford(some for Comly). The old looks were manufactured from 1955-1957. C. The "Fishbowls". PTC got these buses in several groups, a 1963 bunch(both 96 inches wide & 102 inches wide). The 1963 group did not survive 20 years, for all of them were completely off the roster by early 1982, however, with the deffered maintenance associated with SEPTA during the 1970s, it was a miracle that they lasted that long. There were transit diesel buses with hyraulic transmissions. D. The next group of Fisbowls that PTC got in 1963 were a unique group. A small group. 17 buses. 96 inches wide. These were the suburban diesel buses with mechanical transmissions.These buses had stickshifts, no center door, soft semi reclining full back seats & were intended for use on the newly created route 45, to King of Prussia, & the 38. By the time SEPTA took over, these buses were sent to Comly & Frankford for emergency service between the two depots, Trenton Philadelphia Coach, & special services, like the Race Track & Shoppers Special routes. These buses were numbered 3900-3916. By 1982, all but three of them were retired. Believe it or not, the three that survived were assigned to Red Arrow Division(I think they were renumbered 6, 8 & 9). So, close, but no cigar. E. The 1967 group of 96 inch wide, transit diesel buses with hydraulic transmissions. F. The 1970 group of 96 inch wide, transit diesel buses with hydraulic transmissions. Both of these groups(1967 & 1970) were identical. Regretfully, many of these buses fell victim to the Neo invasion of the mid 1980s. The remnants between the two groups were assigned between Luzerne & Germantown depots. Luzerne ran them in earnest until the summer of 1988, mainly on the North Philadelphia routes(notably the C), for The C wasn't the C without the Fishbowls. Some of them were 1967. If so, they lasted over 20 years. G. As for the Neoplans, the Neo EIs & EZs lasted for up to 18 years. The AKs & BMs were within the 12 year guideline set before them. The Neo BMs, BPs CDs, DKs & EBs ran in revenue service for SEPTA & lasted for 17 years. Some additional info: A. The 1949 Marmons were numbered 471-98. They were used on the 59 and 75 when they were converted to Trackless Trolleys. The 1955 Marmons were numbered 301-43, and they were used to convert the 66 to Trackless. In 1979, 325 was rebuilt with the new chopper controls to familiarize operators and mechanics on the upcoming AMG order. B. The old look GMs in the 500-799 series were mostly replaced with the Flxibles [6000-74, 6075-6313, while the 2900-3249 and the 3500-3850 were replaced with the 6314-6665 Flxibles], and the 1969-70 Fishbowl purchase [4250-4427] and that left about 100 old looks from the three groups left over in the reserve fleet. That fleet was done by the RTS and Neoplans. C. SEPTA dumped the 5000 series because they were 102" wide and SEPTA wanted the bus fleet to be 96". That policy was in effect until the 1996 NABIs arrived. Since then the industry standard mandated 102" wide buses. E & F. The 1967 [4150-4249] and 69-70 Fishbowls [ 206-11/4250-4427/1201-14] were rebuilt by NIMCO in 1983, and by Blitz in 1984. They were replaced mostly by the 3000 series Neoplans. Everything good happened before I was born :( Also, why was it so important for the buses to be 96 inches wide?



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