Long Lasting Buses

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Long Lasting Buses
Topic Started: Jan 12 2009, 07:33 PM (709 Views)
Jayayess1190	Feb 26 2009, 03:23 PM Post #16
Foamer Posts: 1,091 Group: Members Member #42 Joined: September 2, 2005	^^^^ 96 inch wide buses fit down the streets better than a 102 inch wide bus.



Mr. Transit	Feb 26 2009, 07:13 PM Post #17
Transit Fan Posts: 107 Group: Members Member #2,280 Joined: February 16, 2008	The 96" wide buses were used, because of a city ordinance, that allowed only these type of buses to travel on many of the narrrow streets of Philly. Also, the 1963 GM Fishbowls were used on the old Rt. F, that used to run from 52nd & Parkside to Main St. and Green Ln, only during peak hours and also once in a while on the A-exp.



Septa_kid	Feb 26 2009, 08:38 PM Post #18
flxie!!!! Posts: 2,040 Group: Members Member #2,467 Joined: March 31, 2008	Mr. Transit Feb 26 2009, 07:13 PM The 96" wide buses were used, because of a city ordinance, that allowed only these type of buses to travel on many of the narrrow streets of Philly. Also, the 1963 GM Fishbowls were used on the old Rt. F, that used to run from 52nd & Parkside to Main St. and Green Ln, only during peak hours and also once in a while on the A-exp. Oh it makes since kinda, so the 40footers could run on routes like the 35?



Mr. Transit	Feb 27 2009, 12:27 AM Post #19
Transit Fan Posts: 107 Group: Members Member #2,280 Joined: February 16, 2008	Yes, in fact the Rt. 35 did you 40ft buses until the late 70's.



Michael-T-Greene	Jun 8 2009, 02:19 PM Post #20
Commuter Posts: 36 Group: Members Member #58 Joined: December 29, 2005	Septa_kid Feb 26 2009, 01:29 PM Mark Jan 18 2009, 11:58 PM CACrafter88bk2504 Jan 12 2009, 07:47 PM Septa_kid Jan 12 2009, 07:24 PM Were there any other buses that Lasted for 20 years besides the Neoplan AN440's and the AMG 10240-E's? Yes, there were several groups of SEPTA(PTC/SEPTA) buses that lasted well over 20 years: A. The Marmon/herrington trolley coaches that were used @ Frankford depot to provide service on the 59, 66 & 75. A group came into revenue service in 1949 & another group came into revenue service in 1955. Both groups were completely off the roster by early 1982. B. The old look GMs(TDH 5105 & 5106) models. Many of them lasted into the SEPTA takeover, with the bulk of them housed @ Southern & perhaps Frankford. By 1980, only a handful existed & the bulk of them were assigned to Frankford(some for Comly). The old looks were manufactured from 1955-1957. C. The "Fishbowls". PTC got these buses in several groups, a 1963 bunch(both 96 inches wide & 102 inches wide). The 1963 group did not survive 20 years, for all of them were completely off the roster by early 1982, however, with the deffered maintenance associated with SEPTA during the 1970s, it was a miracle that they lasted that long. There were transit diesel buses with hyraulic transmissions. D. The next group of Fisbowls that PTC got in 1963 were a unique group. A small group. 17 buses. 96 inches wide. These were the suburban diesel buses with mechanical transmissions.These buses had stickshifts, no center door, soft semi reclining full back seats & were intended for use on the newly created route 45, to King of Prussia, & the 38. By the time SEPTA took over, these buses were sent to Comly & Frankford for emergency service between the two depots, Trenton Philadelphia Coach, & special services, like the Race Track & Shoppers Special routes. These buses were numbered 3900-3916. By 1982, all but three of them were retired. Believe it or not, the three that survived were assigned to Red Arrow Division(I think they were renumbered 6, 8 & 9). So, close, but no cigar. E. The 1967 group of 96 inch wide, transit diesel buses with hydraulic transmissions. F. The 1970 group of 96 inch wide, transit diesel buses with hydraulic transmissions. Both of these groups(1967 & 1970) were identical. Regretfully, many of these buses fell victim to the Neo invasion of the mid 1980s. The remnants between the two groups were assigned between Luzerne & Germantown depots. Luzerne ran them in earnest until the summer of 1988, mainly on the North Philadelphia routes(notably the C), for The C wasn't the C without the Fishbowls. Some of them were 1967. If so, they lasted over 20 years. G. As for the Neoplans, the Neo EIs & EZs lasted for up to 18 years. The AKs & BMs were within the 12 year guideline set before them. The Neo BMs, BPs CDs, DKs & EBs ran in revenue service for SEPTA & lasted for 17 years. Some additional info: A. The 1949 Marmons were numbered 471-98. They were used on the 59 and 75 when they were converted to Trackless Trolleys. The 1955 Marmons were numbered 301-43, and they were used to convert the 66 to Trackless. In 1979, 325 was rebuilt with the new chopper controls to familiarize operators and mechanics on the upcoming AMG order. B. The old look GMs in the 500-799 series were mostly replaced with the Flxibles [6000-74, 6075-6313, while the 2900-3249 and the 3500-3850 were replaced with the 6314-6665 Flxibles], and the 1969-70 Fishbowl purchase [4250-4427] and that left about 100 old looks from the three groups left over in the reserve fleet. That fleet was done by the RTS and Neoplans. C. SEPTA dumped the 5000 series because they were 102" wide and SEPTA wanted the bus fleet to be 96". That policy was in effect until the 1996 NABIs arrived. Since then the industry standard mandated 102" wide buses. E & F. The 1967 [4150-4249] and 69-70 Fishbowls [ 206-11/4250-4427/1201-14] were rebuilt by NIMCO in 1983, and by Blitz in 1984. They were replaced mostly by the 3000 series Neoplans. Everything good happened before I was born :( Also, why was it so important for the buses to be 96 inches wide? To answer the posts: A: You also have to add ACF-Brill TC-44 ETBs' from 1947-48. Some of these vehicles were in service until 1981. These were used to convert the 29 and 75 from trolleys, and were used on all of PTC/SEPTA's ETB routes at one point or another. The 471-498 were strictly on the 59 until later years, when they also ran on the 75. I've heard anecdotal stories that some ran in South Philly while the AMGenerals were being delivered, but I never saw one there in service, or a picture showing same. B(I) we should also add Red Arrow's Old-Look GM's. When picked up by SEPTA in 1970, there were some buses still in service that dated to 1946(TD3609's 26-35), a group of TDH3610's from 1947(46-56), and two groups of TDH4507's, one(36-45) from 1947, and the second(57-76) from 1948. The 4-bangers (which, BTW, were NOT "Davy Crockett" buses...those ones were the group of 2nd(and, in some cases, 4th)-hand GM 36-passenger buses), along with C-36 ACF-Brills that were acquired from Southern Penn Bus Company (a local operator in Chester that, at one time was a sister property of Delaware Bus of Wilmington, a predecessor of today's DART) in 1960 when Southerrn Penn went belly-up. Prior to SEPTA, you can also add the Yellow Coach single-deck and double-deck gas-electric buses of the 1920's, of which the single decks last ran in 1947 on Route 29, in its transtion period from streetcar to ETB, and the double-deck buses in 1948 on a number of lines. B(II): The first inroads on the 5105's and 5106's were made by the 1971-72 Flxibles, with more going(including the rest of the 500-799 group left in the City) with the 1973 Flxibles, including basket cases from the 2900-3249 and 3500-3850 group. A lot more went in late 1974 and early 1975 when the last batch of Flxibles showed up. Some were put in storage, and those were revived in the wake of the Woodland Depot fire, including some 500's that had been sent to Red Arrow in 1970. C(I) and E/F(II) Those 5000's were between 15 and 18 years old, so were probably goners in any case. After they went, SEPTA bought no 102" wide buses until the NABI's, except for 40' Volvo 8590, which was an ex-demo built to RIPTA specs that was given to SEPTA to partially resolve a warranty dispute on SEPTA's Volvo artics. The 96" choice was because the drivers felt easier driving 96" wide buses, and SEPTA listened to its drivers in this case.



Michael-T-Greene	Jun 8 2009, 02:27 PM Post #21
Commuter Posts: 36 Group: Members Member #58 Joined: December 29, 2005	Mr. Transit Feb 26 2009, 07:13 PM The 96" wide buses were used, because of a city ordinance, that allowed only these type of buses to travel on many of the narrrow streets of Philly. Also, the 1963 GM Fishbowls were used on the old Rt. F, that used to run from 52nd & Parkside to Main St. and Green Ln, only during peak hours and also once in a while on the A-exp. There was no ordinance. The maximum width of vehicles in Pennsylvania is set by PENNDOT and its predecessors, which established the 102" width early in 1956...otherwisse, PTC could never have bought its 5105's. (It stands to reason that National City Lines brought a few hired guns to Harrisburg to get this provision in the PA. Motor Vehicle Code.)



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