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| Non opening windows for Baltimore MTA; No way. | |
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| Topic Started: Feb 8 2009, 08:14 AM (479 Views) | |
| Nabi60SFW9620 | Feb 8 2009, 08:14 AM Post #1 |
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I did read a few days ago MTA is possibly going to be getting the 09000 Series buses with windows that do not open at all. Which to me is not a good choice. I did read they should have a high tech AC unit that should make the coach comfortable enough no one should need to open the windows. But thats not the reason I disagree with the issue. I disagree with non opening windows because they have been known to assign buses into service knowing that the Air Conditioning is not working. So if windows do not open and the bus has no air conditioning passengers will be sufficating. And knowing the way they lack enforcement of vandalism. Vandals will be known to start busting out windows each time the AC does not work. Which at some point will cause them to spend more on fixing the AC since the new process will more likely require replacing windows that were busted as the result to the AC not working which will result in a fare increase. So if the windows do not open I would not be surprised if the bus fare went up before the end of the year. |
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| Tritransit Area | Feb 8 2009, 11:49 PM Post #2 |
Transit Enthusiast
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And you are telling us why this is a bad idea because.... If you haven't noticed, SEPTA's buses haven't have openable windows for the past 27 years (from the AKs to the latest bland version of the hybrid). People make do with it. When the a/c isn't on/ doesn't work, people sometimes incorrectly pop open the roof hatch by pushing the black tab (thankfully most of the time it's opened correctly). Occasionally, the daring rider may crack open a window by pulling the red handle. But it isn't that big of a deal, and you make Baltimore out to be worse than Philadelphia's worse neighborhoods.... |
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| Nabi60SFW9620 | Feb 9 2009, 08:54 AM Post #3 |
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Baltimore MTA has more issues then the SEPTA. They only have 2 local rail lines. Bus lines get overcrowded. Plus Ive never experienced passengers cussing out bus operators. Or grown adults misbehaving worse then school children. So if the windows do not open and the AC doesnt work passengers will more likely even cuss out the operators accusing them of not bothering to turn the AC on when its broke. And some. Will just bust out the windows. Especially in the rear of the coach. Plus buses are even filled to a point people are standing in the front door way. So drivers cant always see whats happening in the back.
Edited by Nabi60SFW9620, Feb 9 2009, 08:56 AM.
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| Tritransit Area | Feb 9 2009, 09:49 AM Post #4 |
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With all due respect, you've barely ridden the SEPTA system, much less outside of "Center City". I've witnessed (and I'm sure other people on this board have seen it as well) what you've mentioned on SEPTA buses throughout the city AND the suburbs (Delco). That includes windows popping open. Of course, our people are smart enough to pull down the red lever to open the window, than try to bash it open. Maybe that's not the case with Baltimore... I can't speak much on B-more MTA since I've only ridden their system a few times, but I highly doubt EVERYONE is as bad as you make them out to be. You make Baltimore seem to be one big-ass ghetto.... Anyway, as long as the A/C works, people will be fine. Of course, as B-more MTA's maintenance program is essentially rhetoric (just looking at those Flxes makes me shake my head), that may be too much to ask for... BTW, SEPTA also essentially only has two heavy rail lines in the city. Everything else is Commuter Rail or trolley routes...or in the suburbs. |
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| Nabi60SFW9620 | Feb 9 2009, 10:13 AM Post #5 |
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I do agree that if the AC works everyone should be fine. Plus lately it seem I have never ridden a New Flyer where the AC did not work. I rode at least 1 or 2 Flxibles in that situation. As well as a few Neos. But most times the AC doesnt work its been on a NABI. Which all current buses do have sliding passenger windows. And even if MTA did retrofit the windows the next bus order has onto any of the current buses the oldest may be the 04000 New Flyers or even the 0200 Neoplans. I doubt any of the NABIs will receive a new type of passenger window and I sure know the Flxibles will not. And with non opening windows its not as likely to malfunction. But if the AC doesnt work then the bus should be kept out of service as much as possible with out leaving local runs missing as the result. Its one thing for a malfunction to occur while the bus is in service but buses are even assigned with malfunctions when they first pull out of the base. And not each time when the driver encounters the problem another bus is assigned. Sometimes they have to take it out anyway. And if the malfunction makes the bus un driveable some cases the run is missing until a bus is found. Which is disrespectful to the passengers and the followers. Especially with the fact that some drivers choose to take the bus from one end of the route to the other not in service for no reason dumping passengers on their followers. No matter how busy the route is.
Edited by Nabi60SFW9620, Feb 9 2009, 10:43 AM.
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| Nabi60SFW9620 | Feb 9 2009, 12:41 PM Post #6 |
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According to the MTA press release the windows are suppose to be the tip in passenger windows. Which are the windows that open at the top. So chances are they will be those type of windows. A few months ago I was informed they were going to have the same passenger windows the current fleet has. Which are the sliding windows. As well as the same passenger seats the current New Flyers have. Which are the standard American seating they have been using. But turns out. The passenger windows are the tip in windows. And the passenger seats are the American Seating Insight. I do wish the floors were blue but turns out they are black instead. 08001 which is one of the new Articulated buses that came in last month has the tip in passenger windows. So most likely it is the tip in windows and not the non opening. If the windows were non opening and the issue of vandals smashing them out occured too much they would more likely replace them with windows that do open. Rabbit Transits 05 Gilligs came with power mirrors. But the doorside mirror stuck out too far and they had issues of them being bapped into poles and going into the door and the windows fall out from the door. So at some point they replaced the doorside mirrors on all 05 Gilligs with the same doorside mirror the 02 Gilligs have which is non powered. MTA got soo fed up with people kicking the glass out of the bottom of the rear door they started getting newer buses with glass only on the top half of the rear door. And chances are the rear door will never be fully glass like WMATAs. MTA even mounted steel plates over the bottom half of the rear door on many Flxibles to keep the glass from getting kicked out. Edited by Nabi60SFW9620, Feb 9 2009, 03:32 PM.
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| Nabi60SFW9620 | Feb 13 2009, 10:04 PM Post #7 |
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As it turns out the windows on the 08000s are the tip in passenger windows. The 09000s since they havent arrived I dont know which windows they will have. Pics of 8003 were posted on BTCo.net at the 2009 auto show. Which I am attending tomorrow. So I will get to see this bus in person. http://monumentalcity.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=51383#51383 |
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| Nabi60SFW9620 | Feb 15 2009, 03:29 PM Post #8 |
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From what I do believe. All 130 of the new buses for 2009 will have the tip in passenger windows. Luckily not the non opening windows. Not just because of times the AC doesnt work but some drivers choose not to turn it on and passengers would definetely be complaining if the AC isnt on and the windows do not open. Plus from what I was told the windows are actually plexi glass windows to keep them from getting broken. As well as the tint on the passenger windows is not as dark as on older buses. So its easier for police to see whats going on inside the bus when the bus passes police cruisers. Which is a good thing because of the vandalism that takes place. As well as other crimes that happen on the bus. I wonder what the chances are that the current New Flyer fleet will have the same windows as the 08000s and 09000s 2 years from now. I did open the windows several times on 8003 yesterday and they open out no more then 5". But the circulation works just as good as the sliding windows but the tip ins do not require as much maintenance. Which is one reason for the tip in passenger windows.
Edited by Nabi60SFW9620, Feb 15 2009, 03:32 PM.
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| Nabi60SFW9620 | Feb 27 2009, 09:19 AM Post #9 |
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The AC unit will still have the additional features that were mentioned. But the windows on the 08000 Series New Flyers do open. The 09000 Series I suspect will have the same exact passenger windows as the 08000s. Maybe the frameless tip in windows but Im not 100% expecting that to happen. I doubt they will have non opening windows. |
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| Septa_kid | Feb 27 2009, 09:47 AM Post #10 |
flxie!!!!
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False!!!!! I ride the 66 every morning and no matter which bus I take (even if it is the last one in a train of 5) it is always crowded. And I know alot of adults who cursed out the 66 drivers because the buses were too cold (my mom included) and the buses get so crowded on the 66, they be filled from the front to the back including the area with the higher floors so... that statement: False! |
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| Nabi60SFW9620 | Feb 27 2009, 11:24 AM Post #11 |
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Im sure SEPTA operators do get cussed out but not in the center city. Baltimore. Many bus lines get crowded even with passengers standing in the front doorways. Which is prohibited by law. They cant easily see whats going on. And not to mention many routes do not have enough running time. So overcrowded conditions end up throwing them off schedule. And some operators like to make things worse for passengers and their followers and just go from one end of the route to the other not in service. Even without calling in. I dont know about SEPTA. But Baltimore MTA operators misbehave. As well as the upper management. I still havent forgotten the time Kirk Ave base was dispatching operators to pull into the base. They were informed they were to put everyone off at the next stop. Then put the bus Not In Service and pull into the base. Leaving majority of runs from that base missing. Including 90% of the 19 route. Which is one of Baltimores routes to have high ridership. I dont know if MTA knows about it. They probably dont care but people depend on them even to get to work. And who knows how many of their patrons were fired from their jobs for being late to work as the result to their stupidity. Some even got arrested for loitering as the result to standing on the stops for too long. Which is one reason why many of Baltimores malls either do not want buses stopping right outside the building or even entering the property. And the lack of service leaving people stranded on stops too long is exactly why Hunt Valley mall does not want buses entering their property any longer. The mall mentions its due to weight restrictions but it isnt the only reason. Either way it is MTAs fault buses were banned from entering the property. And I still have not forgotten the time MTA lied to the public that delays would be 30-40 minutes on the Light Rail when a wheel cracked on one of the cars. They only ran 1-2 single car trains on the entire line and left the rest of the Light Rail system departures missing. And many claim they waited for hours to get a train. And more then 90% either had to catch local buses through bad neighborhoods or they had to catch a ride from someone. Some even had to catch a cab. And knowing the trouble makers. Some carjacked other civilians. But luckily MTA is infact not getting non opening windows. They tried in back in 1979 but the ACs on the first buses they tried it on. Which were the RTSs. The AC was crap. So they stuck with sliding windows on all newer bus purchases from 82-06. But now they use tip in passenger windows on newer buses. If they are non opening MD is probably wanting all transit buses throughout the state to have the same features. It does seem lately all TAs in MD are starting to use orange shoulder strap seatbelts on buses. UMBC has them on their latest Gilligs. Ride Ons used them since 2006. And Baltimore used them since 04. And I am sure Ocean City MDs Blue Birds have them. And of course the entire state is suppose to use Gen Fare Odyssey fare boxes on buses. But right now I know MTA, as well as TAs surrounding DC and WMATA are using those fare boxes. Annapolis as well as Ocean City still use non electronic fare boxes. Edited by Nabi60SFW9620, Feb 27 2009, 11:32 AM.
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| Nabi60SFW9620 | Mar 24 2009, 08:54 AM Post #12 |
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For some reason. Some people dont have enough knowledge about bus windows. The only people who saw the windows of the 08000s that know for sure they are tip in are MTAs management. Some operators. As well as other MTA staff who saw them thought those windows were non opening. And I knew from looking at the way the windows were designed that they were tip in windows and not non opening. As we all know non opening windows are just a solid piece of glass. No metal bar at the top quarter of the window. So thats probably where they came with the impression that the 09000s were going to have non opening windows. Plus I doubt they would be a good choice for Baltimore. Especially if the AC doesnt work which is common in the summer. Some of those who walked through 8003 at the auto show thought for a minute the windows didnt open but saw that I pullled the top of the window in and realized the windows open differently. They thought it was crazy since the rest of the fleet has sliding windows but I know the tip ins will do just as good as the sliding windows by way of air circulation. And the windows are easy to see through from outside. So that will help reduce graffitti or anything else from happening on the bus. But I doubt MTA will use non opening windows any time soon. |
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| Nabi60SFW9620 | Mar 30 2009, 08:10 AM Post #13 |
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I did hear the new tip in windows are plexi glass and not real glass. Since they have had issues with vandals in the past. They use plexi glass for the passenger windows since its harder to break. So even if they had rear windows on buses the rear window would be plexi glass but I dont know if thats harder to break if someone decides to toss a brick at the rear window. The tint is infact lightened for security purposes. Just like the windows on SEPTAs buses. The rest of Baltimores fleet the windows are soo dark you cant even see from outside the bus in the day time. At night its not as easy to notice. WMATA has the lighter tint with sliding windows. Which I wish Baltimore MTA had on their entire fleet. LACMTA looks to not even have tinted windows on buses.
Edited by Nabi60SFW9620, Mar 30 2009, 08:13 AM.
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| fire08cop | Mar 30 2009, 09:55 AM Post #14 |
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I know that I am new to these forums, and probably should not write this, but wtf are you posting all of this Baltimore stuff on this website for? I know that it is a forum for "outside of the Tri-State", but do we really need the play-by-play of what color underwear certain drivers wear on a daily basis. I have never before seen someone debate themselves on window style while making out the Citizens of their hometown to sound like lawless desperados. Just my $.02... sorry about that... |
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| Nabi60SFW9620 | Mar 30 2009, 11:47 AM Post #15 |
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9 times out of 10 that I sit in the back of an MTA bus the back is covered with grafitti. And back when they used vynal seat pads they were always cut up. And now days cushioned seats are never again used on any bus purchase. Strictly hard seats. Ive seen grafitti on a couple of SEPTA buses but with their surveillance systems they check the video to see who did it so they can look into finding the people who did. I wish Baltimore would do the same. But one day that may change. Plus SEPTA has its share of crime on board its system also. But I dont think they made any attempts to install operator protection shields on buses. Baltimore MTA is starting that and DC has installed them on some buses. If Baltimore had windows that didnt open they would get busted out if the AC does not work. Maryland Transit Administration happens to be on the list of undependable Transit Authorities. If they did have non opening windows. Either the AC wouldnt be working and windows would be busted out as the result. Or the runs that are assigned the buses with non opening windows are missing because of the AC not working. They assign buses knowing that something isnt working on them and tell the operator to take it out anyway. And if the issue is something that makes it un driveable then their run is missing until a working bus can be found. And even if they did have a policy that they are not to run buses with non opening windows and no working AC that doesnt stop them from doing it anyway. Their maintenance is next to prohibited from scrapping parts from retired buses to fix parts on the existing fleet. They got in trouble for replacing cloth seat inserts with vynal seat inserts on at least 2-3 different coaches. And at least 3-5 times for scrapping mirrors from retired Flxibles and using them to replace power mirrors. But as it stands for now future orders will have tip in passenger windows. So they do open. Unlike the rest of the fleet which have sliding passenger windows. Edited by Nabi60SFW9620, Mar 30 2009, 01:53 PM.
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