Route 15 cutback?

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Route 15 cutback?
Topic Started: Mar 31 2009, 08:03 PM (749 Views)
Mark	Mar 31 2009, 08:03 PM Post #1
Advanced Transit Fan Posts: 436 Group: Members Member #6 Joined: February 18, 2005	From the SEPTA Watch blog: March 30 Now I'm really mad at casinos coming to my town SEPTA released its 2010 Capital Budget last week. Lots of interesting things in there, including this nuggest on page 67: Route 15 Turnback -- This project provides for the construction of a trolley turnback along SEPTA's Trolley Route 15 at Frankford Avenue. This new routing will allow eastbound trolley service to continue through to the Market-Frankford Subway Elevated Line during PennDOT's reconstruction of Interstate I-95, which is scheduled to commence in the spring of 2010. This turnback will become a permanent feature of the trolley line. The turnback will be constructed along Frankford Avenue from Girard Avenue to Delaware Avenue. The project will provide for new track and overhead wire; and traffic signal improvements at Girard and Delaware Avenues. This project will commence in the fall of 2009. This will be the first expansion of trolley and lightrail since SEPTA acquired the PTC in 1968. And why is SEPTA expanding the Route 15 trolley six blocks? To serve the proposed SugarHouse Casino. I'm generally opposed to casinos in my town. And I'm really opposed to SEPTA spending spare resources expanding transit just for them. I can think of dozens of better expansion projects (Roosevelt Boulevard bus rapid transit? Schuylkill Valley Metro? BSL to the Navy Yard?) that should be prioritized over taking the trolley down to the casino. By the way, the PennDOT expansion of I-95 that's mentioned above is to provide the casino with its own on-ramp from the interstate. The construction of this ramp will apparently affect the location of the 15's current turnback. No specific cost breakdown is provided. The expansion is part of a group of four system improvement programs that together have a price tag of $66.2 million through 2021. I hope SugarHouse is at least paying for this expansion out of their own very flush pockets. But even if they were paying for it themselves, this is SEPTA time and energy that's being diverted from other worthwhile projects. Public hearings will be held on the capital budget on April 21. Posted by Michael Froehlich In a nutshell, the 15 is being shortened and rerouted to serve the "Sugar House" casino to be built on Delaware Ave. The 73 bus will be extended down Richmond St and Girard Ave to Front St [that will end the constant crap about the low-hanging Lehigh Ave Bridge and how it fraks up the trolleys.], also this plan was long in the works before the casino came to town as this is part of the I-95 reconstruction of the OBSCENELY HORRIBLE interchange with Girard Ave. In the end, SEPTA will lop off two troublesome miles off the 15 and just as luck would have it, serve a traffic generator at one end of the line. What do you think of this proposal? BTW, what is the other traffic generator on this trolley line? I'll answer that tomorrow.



Van2006ko	Mar 31 2009, 08:09 PM Post #2
Foamer Posts: 2,528 Group: Admin Member #1 Joined: February 16, 2005	I guess it really all depends on the ridership past Frankford Ave and what the proposed headways will be once this turnaround is in effect.



Bus Guy 8202	Mar 31 2009, 08:30 PM Post #3
The 113-119 Spotter Posts: 1,201 Group: Members Member #2,623 Joined: June 11, 2008	:'( :'( :'( I like the way the 15 is now(I got my only Neo ride on the 15 at Westmoreland). :'( :'( :'( It might only be part time service like the way the 44/121 and 52/121 is now.



redarrow5591	Mar 31 2009, 09:34 PM Post #4
Light Rail and Railroad Historian Posts: 939 Group: Members Member #29 Joined: April 23, 2005	Its still in the planning stages but it is mostly to be paid for by the state for the upcoming interchange work for I95. The tracks will run down Frankford to Delaware then turn left and RECONNECT to the existing rails at Cumberland. Ssugarhouse has nothing to do with this.



NYCBusfan1977	Apr 8 2009, 01:20 PM Post #5
Commuter Posts: 43 Group: Members Member #2,678 Joined: January 16, 2009	Bus Guy Mar 31 2009, 08:30 PM :'( :'( :'( I like the way the 15 is now(I got my only Neo ride on the 15 at Westmoreland). :'( :'( :'( It might only be part time service like the way the 44/121 and 52/121 is now. it's ok you will get over it! :)



Septa_kid	Apr 9 2009, 04:19 AM Post #6
flxie!!!! Posts: 2,040 Group: Members Member #2,467 Joined: March 31, 2008	NYCBusfan1977 Apr 8 2009, 01:20 PM Bus Guy Mar 31 2009, 08:30 PM :'( :'( :'( I like the way the 15 is now(I got my only Neo ride on the 15 at Westmoreland). :'( :'( :'( It might only be part time service like the way the 44/121 and 52/121 is now. it's ok you will get over it! :) Actually, I also like the 15 Trolley routee the way it is also, but i am not an operator, but what i do know is when this does happen, snother route will be cancelled or re-routed besides the 73/15 because that's the way things work, the 5 or 25 may be replaced or re-routed, as well as the 3 because they serve the area



TransitChuckG	Apr 18 2009, 11:52 AM Post #7
Foamer Posts: 1,601 Group: Members Member #15 Joined: February 24, 2005	Quote: The tracks will run down Frankford to Delaware then turn left and RECONNECT to the existing rails at Cumberland. Sugarhouse has nothing to do with this. I was told by SEPTA the rails will terminate off Frankford Ave,. near Delaware Ave., in an area that use to be an old gas station. This location is "right across the street" from the proposed casino. but the interntion is not to have the 15 extension/cutback called the Sugarhouse loop, as was quoted above. After I-95 is reconstructed, who knows if they will ever run trolleys down the cutback again? Chuck



CACrafter88bk2504	Apr 18 2009, 03:19 PM Post #8
Transit Historian Posts: 1,324 Group: Members Member #51 Joined: November 10, 2005	Let's face it. The economical way for SEPTA to retain any rail service on the 15 while I 95 construction is taking place would be to have the line served with streetcars from 26th & Girard to 63rd & Girard, with everything east of 26th & Girard being served by buses. This may be viewed as a reverse in operational functions, for from the fall of 1969 through Jabuary 1972, the Girard Avenue Bridge over the Schuykill was being replaced, forcing the west end of the 15 to be dieselized, with everything east of 26th & Girard being served by streetcars.



CACrafter88bk2504	Apr 18 2009, 03:27 PM Post #9
Transit Historian Posts: 1,324 Group: Members Member #51 Joined: November 10, 2005	I meant, January of 1972. When SEPTA did that, the line was partially served by streetcars running from Luzerne depot, for while the Girard Avenue Bridge was in the process of being replaced, there wasn't any direct link from North Philadelphia(Girard Avenue, 4th & 5th Streets) into West Philadelphia during that period. Even after the 50 went bus permanently in October 1980, Girard Avenue, 4th to 5th Streets still offered a direct link between North & West Philadelphia. Girard Avenue, 11th & 12th didn't provide a direct link from North to West Philadelphia until SEPTA initiated service along the newly formed Welcome Line.



philabob1	Apr 18 2009, 04:34 PM Post #10
Advanced Transit Fan Posts: 463 Group: Members Member #640 Joined: June 15, 2007	TransitChuckG Apr 18 2009, 11:52 AM Quote: The tracks will run down Frankford to Delaware then turn left and RECONNECT to the existing rails at Cumberland. Sugarhouse has nothing to do with this. I was told by SEPTA the rails will terminate off Frankford Ave,. near Delaware Ave., in an area that use to be an old gas station. This location is "right across the street" from the proposed casino. but the interntion is not to have the 15 extension/cutback called the Sugarhouse loop, as was quoted above. After I-95 is reconstructed, who knows if they will ever run trolleys down the cutback again? Chuck The tracks will loop on the west side of Delaware Ave around the triangle in the Frankford Ave intersection. This is intended to be the turnaround while I-95 Girard Ave interchange is being rebuilt. A previous plan had the 15 relocated into its own right-of-way alongside a widened Richmond St beneath a widened I-95 from the interchange to Ann St. This would eliminate the problematic underpass north of Lehigh Ave. Some are saying the new track is also the first installment of the ultimate extension of trolley service along the waterfront in the median of Delaware Ave to the south of Frankford Ave. It is possible. The median space is there for it.



silverliner_2	Apr 19 2009, 04:47 AM Post #11
Cab signal supporter. Railroad engineer. Girl chaser. Transit fan. Totally unpredictable! Posts: 321 Group: Members Member #36 Joined: June 2, 2005	I was told the new trackage would reconnect with the existing Route 15 along Richmond Street. But trolleys would be terminating at the Delaware Avenue turnback to be built while the I-95 interchange at Girard Aveniue is being rebuilt. The new interchange, apparently...will completely wipe out Girard Avenue just west of Richmond Street permanently; hence the need for the reroute of the 15.



TransitChuckG	Apr 19 2009, 07:27 AM Post #12
Foamer Posts: 1,601 Group: Members Member #15 Joined: February 24, 2005	Quote: A previous plan had the 15 relocated into its own right-of-way alongside a widened Richmond St beneath a widened I-95 from the interchange to Ann St. This would eliminate the problematic underpass north of Lehigh Ave. I heard the same thing. Eliminate that routing under that low bridge at Lehigh. Let's hope they carry this thorough. Chuck



TransitChuckG	Jul 3 2009, 02:00 PM Post #13
Foamer Posts: 1,601 Group: Members Member #15 Joined: February 24, 2005	An overview of the Route 15, I-95 project. http://www.95revive.com/girard-avenue-interchange-overview.aspx It's going to be a mess for 10 years.



TransitChuckG	Jul 10 2009, 11:42 AM Post #14
Foamer Posts: 1,601 Group: Members Member #15 Joined: February 24, 2005	KYW news radio says a truck is stuck on Richmond st. between Lehigh & Somerset. It's that low bridge on the 15, which is going away in 5-10 years. See the I-95 report. So the 15 is busing between Cumberland loop and Westmoreland loop. This happens about once a week.



silverliner_2	Jul 10 2009, 02:14 PM Post #15
Cab signal supporter. Railroad engineer. Girl chaser. Transit fan. Totally unpredictable! Posts: 321 Group: Members Member #36 Joined: June 2, 2005	TransitChuckG Jul 10 2009, 11:42 AM KYW news radio says a truck is stuck on Richmond st. between Lehigh & Somerset. It's that low bridge on the 15, which is going away in 5-10 years. See the I-95 report. So the 15 is busing between Cumberland loop and Westmoreland loop. This happens about once a week. That truck is STILL there as of 3pm; it's been stuck there since about 6:30am. How many times do we have to tell truckers you can't fit a 14'1 trailer under a 13'11 bridge? :ermm: :huh:



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